Career Surgery

I really sympathise with you Toni. I think ageism is rife and the government will never successfully legistate against it completely as it is an inbuilt biase in our society.

I hope these suggestions can help you:

Target firms that actively recruit the older worker. I think B & Q and Asda might be examples of these. Go in the stores and speak to the older workers and get the inside track.

However, in doing this, you may be targeting roles outside of your specialism. Moving from the mental challenge of number crunching and supervision to retail may feel demoralising from, but realise it might open up new opportunities.

For example, if you have strong management skills a good company will pick up on them and probably promote you. This is more likely in a large operation like a Supermarket or Superstore of some type.

Another option is to target Charities, where the recruitment ethics might be more wholesome. Go straight to them and market your skills rather than relying on the job press.

You may have to confront the difficult obstacle that you are not going to spend the end of your career using the skills you have invested in, and that roles you might consider 'below you' are more realistic/accessible. I would find this difficult to confront myself, but if the obstacle is 'status', then the sooner you deal with it the better.

Alongside your job hunt, you might consider cutting your living costs to reduce the pressure to meet a certain salary scale.

Good luck.

Ade - January 29, 2007 5:46 PM

Your situation is so similar to mine, although I am only 42.

I am an experienced secretary with excellent admin (beyond filing and diary management) and IT technical skills (that's not typing skills, but technical skills). I am a team player, willing to muck in, can work on my own, am flexible in working hours, and willing to start at the bottom and train. I have applied for a variety of positions where I believe I can draw on my skills and experience (temporary assignments), but the response, IF one is received, is "you might get bored". Or, I don't have the right experience.

How does a 42 year old who left school at 18, gain experience when no-one is prepared to employ them? How do you gain experience in an industry if that industry won't take you on and train you? I've done a legal secretaries diploma course while I've been searching, but I don't have the experience to match the 99% pass mark, so it seems to have been a waste of time.

I've tried applying for jobs in different areas and do consider jobs "beneath me", but the attitude of recruiters is amazing, although too many recruiters don't find the time to acknowledge your existence.

The best one was the position of an HR assistant, the point of contact was the HR Manager. She never even bothered to return my call when I enquired about the position.

After 11 months, I now have to claim JSA. I have always been the breadwinner, my husband is feeling the strain more than I.

My CV and work record are praised, by the same employers who then say I am not suitable!!

Perhaps it should be made a legal requirement to hire people who are currently out of work, rather than those who are merely choosing to change?

Jo Kavanagh - February 5, 2007 9:10 PM

Being in virtually the same situation I do not know if I am really qualified to offer advice, however I have taken the line that the way into a permenant job is via a temporary position.

A friend who was in HR (and was made redundant a couple of times) used this method to get himself into a well paying job, although not at first attempt. The theory is that the employer will realise that they have someone who has great potential and will either offer you a perm. position at the end of the contract or contact you at a later date.

OK. so this is theory and my last assignment was with a company that had just had a round of job cuts and had an embargo on recruitment. I am, however, hoping that my next assignment, if I pass the interview, will be with an expanding company that is considering temp. to perm.

My redundancy last year was not my first and in the past I have been offered a perm. position after a period working as a temp.

I must admit that I have had the same thoughts as Jo in that the unemployed should be given a "weighting" in the recruitment process so that they have an advantage over those who are already employed.

I also agree that the worst offenders for not having the courtesey to respond to applications are HR managers. I think this reflects their attitude that applicants are just a resource to be used and discarded in the same manner as any other resource.

One thing that has always annoyed me is those who give advice about lowering your sights. I have had many phone calls from agencies who have seen my cv and when told the sort of salary / rate I am seeking respond with the usual line about being realistic. I can tell from their voice and choice of words that they have very little experience of life or the working world.

I have also had the suggestion I should consider cutting my outgoings. My reply to that is. Yes, OK. What do you suggest I do first? Stop paying the mortgage or stop eating?

Sorry if this appears to be a bit of a rant - I'll get of my soapbox now and wish you good luck.

Just one last point. Be as flexible as possible in the type of work you will consider and make sure you mention this in your cv and application. I have been told that I got my most recent interview because of that.

Chris - February 6, 2007 4:49 PM

Hi there,
This is for Toni and Jo Kavanagh, who replied.

For both of you, who have such excellent skills, take heart. I'm in the same position as you both, albeit older.

For Toni, as you are so experienced in Finance, have you considered going digital. i.e training in Sage (always supposing that you aren't already one of the elite).
As the number of positions available for Sage experienced persons, seems to be increasing, this could be one area you could explore.
And what about setting up your own business, offering to keep other companies accounts for them. Bookkeeping and Purchase Ledger is a nightmare for so many small businesses, that I'm sure they would welcome someone to take this problem off their hands. Do you think that would be something you could enjoy?

For Jo:
As a Human Resources Manager, how about you setting up your own recruitment agency. You have more than enough experience. But not just any sort of recruitment agency, make it for an extremely specialised area with your own staff, that you contract out for specific work/tasks.
I am sure with your knowledge you would have no trouble setting this up and I see a ready niche for you. And depending where you are based, could also impact on the specialisation staff you aim to acquire.
I say to both of you, don't take this attitude lying down, change it!
If the system won't work for you, get out and start your own...
And I wish you both the very best of luck..
Starting your own business is not hard, just takes a strong mind and someone who is willing to try. I know you need some finance, but you can start for very little and even just one client...plus a website and some advertising.

Please try... I think you both have it in you..

Good luck.

Sue - February 17, 2007 3:35 PM

The government's ageism legislation is about as effective as taxing the 4x4's in Richmond as an answer to global warming. It was designed only to justify the politicians keeping their jobs by appearing to do something (as opposed to nothing). Even with a B&Q type job at £5.05/hour that is not an answer to our problems. By the time tax is deducted along with commuting costs and a sandwich for lunch the real 'rate' is £3/hour. It won't pay the mortgage or the utilities.
At 60 I have given up job hunting despite a brilliant IT career that terminated on 9/11.
I suggest you look at a home-based business but be very careful to perform your due diligence since there are many scams out there. I have chosen Internet Marketing / Information publishing which if you can locate the right 'market' can produce an income equal to your previous salary. There are no endings, only new beginnings.....

/Ian

Ian Loughlin - February 17, 2007 4:45 PM

Try and network in the areas you are interested into moving into. It does work! Also charities are much much more open than many employees about your skills set and many of them pay quite well.

Louise - February 17, 2007 7:04 PM

go self employed best thing i ever did

stan - February 17, 2007 9:31 PM

My comments are to Ade, whoever Ade may be.

This is the typical response women over 50 have to put up with. I don't want to hear that all I'm fit for is working in a supermarket. It's offensive to women who have had good, high powered jobs and offensive to those working in supermakets.

Why should we have to stop doing the work we are trained for and love doing just because we are over a "certain" age.

No wonder legislation hasn't achieved anything with attitudes like yours Ade, shame on you.

Mags - February 18, 2007 10:26 AM

AGEISM - DEAD. YOU MUST BE JOKING!
I am an experienced Works/Production/Quality Manager who was made redundant 18 months ago, and some of the jobs that I have applied for have fitted my profile to a tee, but not only do I don`t get an interview, I don`t even get contacted by the agency concerned. When I chase my application,I am told that they have found someone with closer experience. BXXXXXXT.I am 60 in 8 weeks time.
I sympathise with Toni.

William Davies - February 18, 2007 11:04 AM

Dear Toni,

It is really true that it is much harder to find a job, when you are unemployeed than if you just change position. New employers are suspicious about persons made redundant. I am 46, but have been in your situation already. Five years ago, I worked for equipment provider, my sector real leader and became redundant. The corporation simply decided to close down the whole division and, in spite of the fact my bosses claimed I was very good employee, I was put out as there were strict embargo on new hireings. Then for two years, I was looking for a job in my industry. I registered in many places, sent out over 150 applications ... and in result was invited for 5 (five) interviews. In rare answers, I was told that my qualifications are too good for the position. Luckyly, I found a job for a company, which was not exactly from my sector. This was not exactly what I was looking for, but I had a job finally.

I tried to find out what was bad in my CV, asked about it friends, checked with HR person. Everyone claimed, the CV was OK. So what was the problem? It seemed to me that my to be bosses preffered to hire a younger persons that would not be a threat to them. In many situations, I was in equal age or even older than they were. Most of companies preffer sales persons in age of 30-35 rather than over 40. Moreover, they assumed, I was not going to take a job for less salary than my last one.

Today, I am Project Manager. And not for equipment supplier. I would really love to work on my former role again, but it seems, it is not feasible. And project management is challenging, too.

Just don't give up and good luck!

Maciej

Maciej - February 18, 2007 11:46 AM

Do not put your date of birth on your C.V. or put n/a on the application form, you do not have to. Even though this should not be on the application form, although a lot of companies still have old application forms. I was a Television Engineer and got made redundant at 57. Within a week I had taken a job as a delivery driver. It's not ideal, lower wages, early starts, ( 3.00 a.m), but it pays the mortgage. Never give up hope, there are plenty of employers who will take on older people, you just might have to take a different role. Good luck

Alan - February 18, 2007 12:27 PM

Get your feet under a desk so to speak, so apply for a wide range of jobs. Some money coming in is better than none. Once in the post the chances of swiching to a better paid role or even getting a pay rise increase. Also it is far easier to get a job from a job for some unknown reason.
As to the CV, if it can be cut cut it, for too good a CV is often seen as challenging, even a threat to the person interviewing you.
Remember employers are more often after an individual, who they can mold and can see the candidate fit in with the team; whilst employment agencies are trying to fit the applicant to the post based on qualifications. As such the new age discrimination legislation works against the experienced person, to say x years of hands on experience is not allowed, for this is excluding the inexperienced younger person. Hence the job sellection says "qualified in shuving supositories up ducks arses" not "twenty years of handling ducks".
Best of luck, I succeeded at nearly sixty, but my friends now keep bringing me china ducks,true!

Paul Reynolds - February 18, 2007 5:55 PM

Good luck in your search, as I am 60 this year and unemployed, again, I sympathise with the plight of everyone not working and over 45.
I am a qualified accountant with an MBA and 40+ years experience , I apply for loads of jobs and receive very few replies. I wonder why ? Are employers afraid of confident, competent mature individuals? Are the management teams afraid of employing people more experienced and qualified than they are ?
If we apply for slightly lower grade posts , we are considered over qualified and a possible threat to our superiors ? I do not wish to spend the rest of my life stacking shelves at B&Q or Asda, I need to work, I want to work.

Does anyone know of a recruitment agency that specialises in the mature executive ?

The only positive things I can suggest are to keep applying, never give up, if the odds of me getting a real job stand at 1000 to 1 , then I only have a few more jobs to apply for ! Read some of Tony Robbins books ( the US self help guru) talk to people, ask for advice , keep asking why?

Good luck

Keith - February 19, 2007 8:46 AM

The coments are very interesting, but depressing. When you reach early sixties, most stories offered by the contributors carry reflections of ones own experiences.
I have left my career of nearly 35 years and simply want to get out of the house for about 20 hours a week. I ran my own business with a regular staff of nearly a dozen for over a decade.
Having dealt with the public and companies alike at all levels B & Q decided that I was not suitable materieal for a part-time job. The reason given was that they thought I could not "come down to the level " required to discuss issues. What should I do - write a CV so that the facts are incorrect.? This would indicate that I am not over qualified.
I have been searching for about three years and agree with most comments regarding agencies. Even when I did get a small 3 week position as a receptionist via an agency, just basicaslly saying "Hello" to visitors, I could not get any feedback from the agency nor have I heard from them since and yes there are agencies that concertrate on the mature applicant. Try Google and type "Recruitment for mature". It was the first I tried and seems to offer potential.
Companies can be bad as well. I talked to one company who were searching to fill a vacancy. The job was specialized but ironically the job I had been doing for decades. I knew a lot and had contacts that could be brought in as clients. No further reply.
My local Job Centre has closed down and although I was not receiving any benefit because over the years I had managed to save a bit, when I pursued the subject of accessibility of their premises to see what was on offer with the nearest Job Centre, I was informed it was going to be called The Benefits Agency and going into the Benefits Agency to look for jobs was not an option for non recipients and I would be barred. I have to say I have not checked this out.
There is obviously a massive workforce out there. Companies do not wish to hire older people, and agencies are paid, not by you and I, but by the companies they represent. Maybe if we could form a group with certain criteria to help each other we might be able to create work for ourselves and help people with diffferent skills fulfil their individual needs. For myself I am beginning to feel the inevitable - tired of looking, it is draining and it does have personal and family repercussions.

David

david - February 19, 2007 12:05 PM

To all of you who have commented, I too am suffering at the hands of agencies and direct approaches to HR departments.
At the ripe old age of 52 I find some of the excuses given to me by prospective employers and thier representitives laughable.
Anyone over the age of 45 has occupational experience and in many cases business "nous" that employers really need in todays fast moving marketplaces, problem is that the majority of employers actually looking for your skills will never get to even see your CV because you have been filtered out by agencies excercising self-imposed rules which do not appear in the brief given to them in the first place!
I wish you all good luck, I find its a numbers game, keep uploading your CV to as many web sites as possible, but concentrate on the sites which allow you to show what you are capable of, change your CV on a regular basis and re-upload it, keeping it fresh. Find some local work if you can, doing anything (I have and although it will not pay for the mortgage, it has improved my self-worth no end).

Paul - February 19, 2007 2:23 PM

Hi,
I am 50 years old and am experiencing the same difficulties with practcally the same comments about my CV.

Jeff Woodington - February 19, 2007 4:09 PM

...Mags? "Shame on you?" ..........Please.....

I'm not ageist. I'm offering advice based on experiences of close friends and family. I realise it is an emotive issue but I was giving a perspective. A perspective focussed on getting someone in despair into employment who is 56, with bills and a mortgage to pay.

You might not 'want to hear' the advice, but you've clearly heard it before. If there wasn't some truth in it, why are you so bitter?

Many people will have to confront these issues, and increasingly so. If ageism starts at 45, an ageing population, increasingly in debt have some hardships to look forward to.

Sticking you head in the sand will do you no good.

Ade - February 19, 2007 4:26 PM

hi all
I agree that there is a certain age that if employers see on an application form it will go straight in the bin without being read.
I am a person who over the years have changed my job quite freely[ I am a toolmaker 48 ] from the age of approx 33 I have noticed I was recieving less responces up to the point where now I now don't get any reply at all.
It is very frustrating and dissapointing as I am gaining more and more experiance every day and still have a lot to offer.
However I am lucky to have a job and give you all my support . ps I have applied to B&Q as well and they stated I was to experianced ????
mike

MICHAEL - February 19, 2007 7:11 PM

I am 55 ad just left coach driving after 20 years, looking for a new direction. Taking ECDL course at Learn Direct and training with Ipsos Mori as market researcher. If you can knock on doors...? Dont even need a CV. Check em out on web.

STUART WARREN - February 23, 2007 12:41 PM

Yes it would be true to say that ageism does exist in the job market, it would be very niave to believe otherwise. But no matter what you say, or moan about it, you aren't going to change it. I, as a manager myselt, would take an experienced 55 year old, 60 year old, over any 20 somthing. But I would expect them to develop themselves, just as I would a 20 somthing. If I was Toni I would either set myself up as an independent financial advisor, people are more willing to trust somebody with a bit of life experience, than some flyboy, who just wants to sell u the most expensive packages.
I would also look at advertising your skills on the internet, there are agencies which specialise in helping you set up your own business via the internet.
If you think your age is a problem, it will be, and it will start to demotivate you. If ever there was a time to grasp the bull by its nettles its now, make somthing happen even if its just looking into some of the ideas people have posted.

Baz - March 5, 2007 1:17 AM

Alas, Ageism is alive and well. I've been a police officer for 20 years. I ascended though the ranks and probably have the most impressive Law Enforcement skill set, education, experience and resume in the region. I'm 41. I cannot even get a call back from small part-time po-dunk police agencies. Physically and mentally, I'm more capable than most 22 year-olds however it's becoming clear to me that the door is slammed shut...tight! I can suggest to older career-changers that you should look into the area of teaching. I have found that the public schools are about the only place where you're going to get a fair shake. They are hurting so badly that they'll take just about anyone with a teaching certificate. So, if you're in my boat, perhaps you should consider being a teacher.

DT - May 26, 2007 4:44 PM

At 47, I too have experienced ageism preventing me from being promoted and gaining a new role that I know i can do and are suited for. I am not going to say that this no longer a problem - because it is - and with some companies the problem is getting worse.

What I think is worth sharing with you, the way I found suited me best way to get past the ageism problem.

It is to ensure that my CV is completely tailored to "mirror" the requirements of the role being applied for. By this, I mean that all my relevant experience and knowledge is used to highlight how I meet the real requirements of the job by giving hard hitting examples.

I am certainly not trying to convince you that I am necessarily better than the next person for the role - just that I have had some success by using this method. There is nothing special about my CV, I just ensure that it really hits the hiring manager between the eyes.

My method includes using previous appraisal information to ensure that all the good points are reflected when I put the CV together. The reason for doing so is because we can all forget key points in our careers that when worded differently, can add something different to your CV.

Before adopting this approach, my success rate was not high - although I managed to be employed - it was not in the job I really wanted.

From the other side of the coin, some of the best staff I have ever managed were over the age of 50 and I always look at what other experience they have when reviewing CV's for vacancies.

Chris - June 14, 2007 2:05 PM